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108597-why-does-dying-feel-like-punishment-in-this-game
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- That silly level down sound is still burnt into my memory ;) | |} ---- ---- ---- I feel the same way you do. Get off my lawn kids! Back in the day we lost actual REAL LIFE MONEY if we died in a video game. You wanted to be good so that $5 you stole out of your mommy's purse would last you as long as possible. Unbelievable, crying about a 1 minute corpse run and thinking it's a punishment. Dying in video games is supposed to be a punishment and a way to judge your skill level, always has, well, accept for nowadays. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- most of the gamers today would ragequit en masse, after innundating CS with requests to replace lost gear | |} ---- No truer words were ever spoken. They inundate CS now with requests for things that were there own fault. But I forgot, I need to get with the program, their is no accountability anymore, nothing is ever, ever your fault. | |} ---- ---- ---- Because dying is punishment. | |} ---- In fairness, many of the same video games back in the day where there was a "three lives, game over" policy also did not have an end. You simply kept going until you were eventually overwhelmed. The concept that it was even possible to "win" took a few years to show up. I'm sure the long term effects on a generation that grew up learning that there was nothing they could do but stall the inevitable would make a really fascinating psychology thesis. | |} ---- ---- I didn't really think of it of stalling the inevitable but more as a test of my own individual grit, fortitude, and stamina. How high of a score could you get? How far could you get before succumbing? The fact that many games had no end mattered not. You did it to test yourself and improve upon your weaknesses. "The sky's the limit" and all that. Basically, Kill 3 monsters? Fine. Give me 4. Beat that? Give me 5. And so forth until you're bested. | |} ---- ---- I will tell you what the long term affects were. We didn't grow up to be entitled panty wastes. | |} ---- "Heartless bastards you lot". Thank you. You just made me laugh so hard I almost fell out of my chair. :lol: | |} ---- ---- ---- not sure what that has to do with the OP's post actually, since death occurs in every game and is not tedious as much as inconvenient. or is that some catchphrase you just try and get into as many threads as possible because you like how it sounds to you? | |} ---- This. All of this. Lol, I'm just imagining all of the players whose only MMO experience was WoW coming to WildStar and being like "what the shit?! Dying sucks in this game!!" Poor, sweet, innocent little nooblets. :p As MeWow said, dying in WildStar isn't even all that bad compared to games like EverQuest (and I still miss those days even! lol). | |} ---- ---- What games, not even just MMORPGs we're talking about all games, doesn't send you backwards in the game when you die to your last checkpoint at the very least? | |} ---- ---- Calling people nooblets cause of the easy WoW dying? Suppose you never wiped in AQ 40 classic and rode 25 minutes back to C'thun ( about 6 times an evening, 5 evenings a week). | |} ---- Are you some kind of freaking mind reader? If not, suppose you tell me how you know exactly what attitude is in the OP's head when he wrote this? you are jumping to conlusions at best. WORST "LOLZ NOOBZ- LTP-BACK IN MY DAY......YOU SUXKZ" THread I''ve run across here. | |} ---- | |} ---- Me too. Now, as for dying(Death). It's going to happen and there should be consequences. The grave yards are so far from the quest zones so you you can't skip things with the death express. Usually you're brought back at or near the quest hub unless you're WAY out there. And as for the cash res thing. Again its to prevent exploits. When you die you're ghost can move so you can get out of the way of mobs. If people can just pay to res whats keeping them from just running through mobs, dying, ressing, and keeps running? | |} ---- And then, they decided manual saving was too hard and complicated, so they made auto-saving, usually at the moment you didn't want, in games you didn't want it in. (seriously, who thought auto-saving in Sim freaking City was a good idea?) | |} ---- ---- Firstly, I meant it more as a term of endearment than as an insult. Secondly, I was referring to modern-day WoW and its players, not Vanilla. And thirdly, as previously stated, even Vanilla WoW dying was NOTHING compared to EverQuest. lol | |} ---- ---- No, it doesnt not "speak volumes". Thats in YOUR head. You CANNOT determine the mentality of this player with merely ONE post. And the OP is correct in a sense. Some zones the rez point is stupidly so freaking far away you have to scratch your head wondering what just happened. Others have mentioned this in other posts as well. It isnt game breaking but its stupidly annoying to say the least. In the end, its you people who determined the guy is "whining" because predators look for ANY sign of weakness then jump the hell all over it. It would of just been easier to explain to the guy rather than call him a noob, a whiner etc. No instead the elitist jerks just HAVE to have their daily dose of "fun" at someones elses' expense. You know what I'm talking about here. Deny it all you want. I wasnt born yesterday. EDIT: I cant believe you just used the phrase "Man up" concerning a video game. That explains everything. | |} ---- You don't think it fits there? Are we playing the same game? Ideally dying in a video game should really make you think about what went wrong. Need to hit interrupts in different areas, maybe, possibly burn a support cooldown here or there. Somewhere along the way you did something wrong, you are immediately reminded of it, and then get to try again in very short order. In Wildstar the lesson is, "Lol, don't die, brah." Dying in Wildstar is one of the more punishing experiences of recent years. Though not as bad as MMOs that actually took experience and levels away from you it's still more punishing to die in WS than in Vanilla WoW (A game that often made just playing it a punishing and tedious experience) It's always a financial burden, doubly so if you'd like to avoid the time sink of running all the way back to your questing zone (which can only be done once per half hour) After that first costly respawn you get to walk/ride all the way back, fight your way through all the same creatures, and only then do you get to try your hand at the same creature that killed you so you can look for what you may need to do differently. It isn't helpful to kill all the mobs you've already killed before. It's just an additional time sink. "It was worse in X MMO" isn't a valid argument. We aren't playing that MMO. Dying in Wildstar is still more of an exercise in tedium than player progression. Most of Wildstar features tedium over progression. Do the exact same daily for a week and a day to learn one crafting recipe, two weeks and a day if you prefer the support version of that crafting recipe. Technologist and Architect are extremely RNG heavy tradeskills, and each of those RNG rolls cost money, which make doing their daily quests an exasperating bore. Grind the same sets of dailies for 3 weeks if you want one piece of one small portion of your Elder Game progression. The loot system in dungeons is the most massive time sink I have ever seen in PvE, featuring 4 layers of RNG when searching for ugrades. Tedium = Hardcore actually fits rather well for most areas of the game, not just Death. | |} ---- ---- ---- In what way did we curtail the OP's freedom of speech? I ask this specifically because you seem to want a mod to delete comments that you don't like, thereby silencing voices, whereas no one has removed the OP's thoughts from the forums or silenced him or her. We simply disagreed and showed instances where game death actually is a punishment. And recheck your Constitution for what freedom of speech actually is: the guarantee from government that it will not silence dissenting voices. Government, not forum posters. But again, no one silenced the OP. | |} ---- Precisely what zones are the rez points very far away? I've never had to ride more than a minute to get to where I was after I died. Kytar wasn't rude, just pointing out the obvious. Nobody here is under any obligation to agree with the poster or assume the poster somehow hasn't ever played a video game and doesn't know that running out of HP tends to have adverse effects on your character. That's not elitist, it's simply answering an opinion with an opinion obviously shared by a vast majority of the playerbase (death penalties are either just right or too soft). It's hardly cause to take it out on Kytar that he thinks the OP is overreacting. | |} ---- Dying itself isn't so big a deal. As a medic I can solo most 3 man mobs and even when things go pear shaped having a hoverboard with the mount speed boost means I can skip over most terrain on the way back. The tedious nature of Wildstar's death punishment does seem somewhat more relevent, however, when piled on top of the tedious nature of... everything else. Don't get me wrong. I love this game and I want it to succeed. That's why I *cupcake* about things that I feel would drive away new players to the genre. | |} ---- ---- I think the point here is that "tedium" is being strongly misused here. If you die, you're never very far from where you died on mount. A minute's ride to get back to where you were isn't really that tedius. For the most part, running back to where you died takes less time than it took to actually die. Wildstar's incredibly lenient with death mechanics. Any less than that, and you'd just be popping back up where you died to full HP. | |} ---- ---- "Asuume" is the key word here. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven ohterwise. You CANT say he HAS ever played an MMO either, there's too little information. Thats besides the point anyway....my beef is with those who provided NO help whatsoever except to publicly stroke their epeen and denigrate other players. I've had a post or 2 of mine deleted in the past and perhaps thats as it should be. Fine, apply the rules consistently and delete the threads that provided NO input other than to derive pleasure out of someone elses naivete. I didnt provide input to the OP because in a way I tend to agree with him. So you have to run a minute to get back to where you were when you died. Whyt not 30 secs? why not a 15 sec run? Will running that extra 15 secs give me more time to analyze the error of my ways? I doubt it. And the OP was also onto something when he mentioned we ALREADY have to pay for repair costs. The amount is moot and insignificant but then why are players "punished" twice? I forget what zone it was, but I had just entered it and died while looking something up. No big deal normally but my death resulted in me being sent all the way acroos the zone to a spot I hadnt event discovered yet. Yes, I was annoyed as hell, but I certainly did NOT stop and think to myself "Damn, I guess I wont do that anymore". My whole point here was either answer the questions like a respectable human being or keep your mouth shut. | |} ---- ---- ---- Kytar is definitely not in that camp, and I feel that attacking him because he didn't think the idea of the death penalty being harsh was valid is absolutely unfair. The OP's post specifically states that dying is a giant, horrible time waste that makes him feel like he's being punished. Anything said to disagree with that is going to revolve around not dying, the punishment not being harsh at all, and penalties for death being necessary. You can cry about any of those being denigrating, if you're desperate for umbrage. Kytar was perfectly fine in the response you were calling out; he was simply calling the death penalty for Wildstar obviously trivial compared to pretty much every other MMORPG in existence. I'd go farther; I'd say you'd have to hunt for a game that made death LESS trivial even outside MMORPGs. I'm certainly not going to assume that everyone who doesn't like running back to their original location has never played a video game before. I find nothing Kytar said here to the OP particularly offensive or belittling, at least not more belittling than making the assumption that the player has never died in a game and had to reload at the last checkpoint. Here are a few reasons that the current system is a good idea: 1. There are ways to die where standing right back up where you are is a death sentence. Falling off a cliff into the middle of a harsh leveling area necessitates respawning elsewhere. And that includes times where you fall into the middle of nowhere and couldn't get back out. 2. You have an option to stand right back up, for money, if you REALLY want to, once in a while. Not doing so means death becomes a triviality so you can just corpse-walk your way through a camp or that you can simply stand up after dying or jump off cliffs to get to the bottom of an area just as a mode of transportation. 3. Open PVP makes it important that people aren't just raising back up to continue a fight after dying over and over. 4. Open world group content would be even more faceroll because you would simply stand up right after being killed and jump back into the fight with your friend, rather than having to run back. It's debatable whether graveyards are TOO numerous, since this makes killing world bosses exceptionally easy even if people are eating telegraphs. 5. The death system is extremely open to experimentation compared to other games. It's extremely forgiving to make you simply run back to where you were. It breaks up combat better than having you stand straight up every time with much less HP. 6. You need to come to grips with dying and probably need a few minutes. 7. Of course death needs some kind of penalty, more than just a monetary one if you're repeatedly killing yourself! You just ran out of HP, it's a failure. Dying in an FPS doesn't restart right from where you were with full health and all the enemies you killed dead. Dying in a platformer doesn't put you back on the platform you missed the jump from. Failing at Candy Crush doesn't put you back where you were with all the lines you'd cleared still cleared. Yes, there are penalties for biting off more than you could chew too often. You aren't supposed to be not worried about death at all, you should feel like you didn't succeed at something and you must pay for your lack of judgement. For a game like Wildstar, the death penalty is intentionally leniant, and is well judged if a bit too lenient. It should not be any easier than it is, or what the Hell are you dodging telegraphs to avoid? You'll stand back up and almost seamlessly restart combat as if there was just some random HP reset. Running out of HP should be something you need to avoid or face consequences. That's the entire point, the excitement behind the risk of failure. | |} ---- ---- You actually should though. Take that time to look at your gear, your LAS, your AMP points, and make sure you've been keeping up with upgrades as you level(OP said in areas 2-3 levels higher than himself) if you've been dying a lot. | |} ---- ---- ---- Look, I've played the "hardcore" games before. Shadowbane was one of the most brutal games out there concerning death. You dropped EVERYTHING and the only thing running thru your mind during the corpse run was "God, I hope no one looted my grave". THATS a real penalty for dying. Death in Wildstar is NOT punishing nor does it make you consider what you did wrong or even encourage you to try something differently. You just grumble some, get back up and continue on with the grind. For a game that was released as "hardcore" they really missed the mark when it came to death. I dont think this guy "intentionally" went into a zone above his level, I got ahead of myself at one point in the game where I ran into a zone of 50's when I was only lvl 47. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt because we ALL deserve that until/unless proven differently. Some of you go out of your way to deny people that, ande THATS what grinds my gears, not some silly, meaningless death run. My whole gripe concerning this thread was with the way some of you just jumped all over the guy and "assumed" this and that about his motives on why he posted, all the way to him being a noob. It was horribly toxic, sets a bad example and gives the game a bad name. I've said a few things that were questionable and they were deleted...fine, I probably deserved that. On the other hand, it seems "others" are allowed to do the same thing with no consequences at all. Again, its their forum and rules but at least be consistent in applying those "rules". | |} ---- ---- ---- You are expecting ANYONE to listen to a word you say when your first sentence opens with calling people "dumass"? Bites tongue. | |} ---- ---- ---- Everytime you die you have to roll a d20, if it lands on the 20 nothing happens, if it lands on 5-19 you lose XP, if it lands on a 2-4 your character perma dies, if it lands on a 1 you die in real life. Hardcore. | |} ---- Lineage One was another MMO that really penalized you for death. At the upper levels, say around lvl 48, it could take you almost a week to gain 1% exp, and if you died, it cost you 10% of that exp and if you had just currently made the level, you could actually DELEVEL! Yea, that kind of penalty keeps people in line. Again, a stupid 1 min death run is not a penalty, its a stupid inconvenience. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- If you're going to read what I say and refuse to resist applying the toxicity you think is all over the place, it's not my fault if you're going to see *cupcake*! when you read what I said. I wasn't being an *cupcake*, or toxic, or calling you or the OP noob when I said that, that was actually a helpful tip that I myself have been known to forget to do until I've died in an area like 5 times before going "Shit, I haven't upgraded my gear in like 5+ levels, no wonder I'm dying." | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I dont recall ever calling you out, so I backtracked and reread the posts. The only explanation I have is that I most likely quoted the wrong post. Your response wasnt out of line by any means. Apologies for the confusion. | |} ---- You might wanna slow down or get some lube. Tough on an e-peen to pump it that hard over nothing. | |} ---- ---- Technically, it takes seconds to live an entire lifetime from age 1 to 100. Now. On to a more pressing concern. Why does Dyeing feel like a punishment in this game? | |} ---- LOL! A FAR more worthy topic without a doubt. | |} ---- Because it's not account shared so you can't share all your dyes with your alts. | |} ---- Enjoy your youth while you can. Time is patient and doesnt discriminate. Its also foolish to ignore history and wisdom but then, when I was your age, I "thought" I knew it all also. | |} ---- Yeah, clearly all those years being one top-notch pretend warrior on a pretend battlefield have done wonders for you. | |} ---- I would like it to cost less when I dye. | |} ---- ---- ---- Honestly, I'm fine with WildStar not getting millions of subs if it means the game won't have to be "dumbed down." In other words, new players should expect that they need to play well and not die and deal with the tedium of dying when it happens, or (and I really don't say this to be rude) they should find an easier game. Because, once again, the "tedium of dying" in WildStar is nothing compared to what it could be. If you can't simply run back to where you were and pay a few silvers in repairs... there really isn't much help for you in this game. :/ | |} ---- ---- | |} ---- In short, as Prrrrrince Vorkken wisely said: "Dying is a terrible thing!". | |} ---- ---- ... Um. Click the link to my profile. | |} ---- EVE would have been so much better as a highly complex PVE game rather than a PVP game. Its interface is terrible for quick reactions and deftness, but a lot of fun when they were warping groups into you and forcing you to control range. It's really disappointing to me that they ended up stressing what they don't do well and neglecting what they could do well. Still, my character name's on that gaudy rock they put out in Iceland, and it's not like it's a bad game. Not a bad game to have on the backburner, if I had time between RP in Wildstar and playing Wildstar to be able to play it at all, I still wouldn't mind the 15 bucks a month to hit a wormhole once a week. | |} ---- ---- Go play EVE and die. Let me know how Wildstar compares. | |} ---- I remember buying some new gear, I was a new player so I had to sell my old stuff to get it. Running out to the field and being murdered by a sheep. De-leveled and couldn't equip them anymore. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I didn't know you make things hard by making them time-consuming. If I make a math test with the only question being "2 + 2 = ???" but require you to write down the answer 350 times does that mean I'm presenting you with an actual challenge? The long corpse runs are there to make players spend more time on trite activities just so they finish slower. That's it. No difficulty here, don't delude yourselves. Carbine intentionally designed the entire game to dish out deaths fairly often, even admitted to it, and then placed down graveyards in such a way that the user will spend the highest possible amount of time running back to where they were. A lot of MMOs do this. It's such a cheap tactic that I'm suprised not more people call developers out on it. Kind of like how Blizzard is slapping down unscaleable mountains every five meters in WoD then restricts flying mounts thus forcing everyone to take scenic routes that, by some strange coincidence surely, end up taking twice as long. Wait a second... WoW is hardcore. | |} ---- Stop. They are there to make players think twice about how they play, to make the game world mean something… so that there is some danger… gives the player the choice to mitigate the time they spent corpse-running - if they play well. | |} ---- ---- Chua like to complain. Had to finished 5 quests before reaching level 2. Chua cannot accept this, is too much of punishment having to learn game and read text and work. | |} ---- Haven't you announced multiple times that you have lost faith in Carbine over the attunement changes and thus decided to rage quit? Don't hold out on us. I don't think my sophisticated heart can deal with such levels of trepidation. | |} ---- And i'm dead serious here...I can't even see how we got to this point. Do people not even know what used to happen when you died in these types of games?....You lost it all! Period. If you were lucky you might make it back to your dead body before you got robbed. I mean really. I just look at some of these post and I just feel so old. I can't even picture complaining about having to walk 2 mins back where I was after dying. Loosing nothing....I mean..wow. What the "cupcake" is wrong with people. | |} ---- Chua answer with cliché reply: Before WoW, MMORPG and RPG games in general were hard games. When market catered to borader audience, standards for games changed. Backlash is that newer Humans not used to challenges from old days and consider as broken/bad gameplay. | |} ---- ---- You're a newb if you needed to read! I did them without reading! Hardcore for life, get out you casual! Roflmao | |} ---- ---- In fairness, essentially everything past the first post was people smacking down the OP. Some people were kind about it, most were not, but the "zomg dying here is too hardcore" sentiment has been overwhelmingly rejected. So perhaps your shock and dismay about how the whole world wants everything handed to them on a silver platter may be just a tiny bit overblown. | |} ---- No. Shame on you for encouraging complaining over actual problem-solving and self-determination. I overestimated gamers nowadays. I expected them to show a little grit or stiff upper lip in the face of adversity. My bad. I won't make that mistake again. | |} ---- ---- I guess you were too busy to read the thread and see my first post on like page 2 | |} ---- Lol Is this your first mmo forum or something? How'd you keep that delusional for so long? Whiny or not, if you want someone to do better it's better to give them some tips then just laugh at them. OP was doing it wrong, he's new, and he's not good enough to fight mobs two levels higher. He was whiny, but there was also logical reason why he had such a hard time. Some people research and experiment to get better. Some people have to be fed knowledge like babes. Takes all kinds, if he gets his shit together we might have a good player. Instead of him thinking we are all mean cupcakes who will eat him alive for being frustrated... And maybe drop the game. Yes yes, you guys want only the hardest of the hard... Ddo was f2p,enough money from the hardest of the hard masochists. Not enough money for the publisher... What do you get? Update after update with nothing but easy mode or rapage and nothing in between. OP new abilities that made raids a joke. Easy gear that you could window farm in two days with your friends. I love me some loots but all us elites multiplied our power in one month more than we had in two years of hard farming... And nothing was ever really hard again, just cheapshots like x100 hp mobs like that's what hard is. Niche does not survive, sad to say. And NCSoft is WildStar publisher. *shrug* do what you will, but it might be better to help the newblets reach higher level of play than scare them away. | |} ---- Or maybe the entire thread is pointless... Death feels like a punishement because it IS a punishment... it's the punishement for dying... You suck, you die, then you are dead. FFXI you lost EXP, money, and could de-level EQ was even worse D2 you lost half of your currency, in HC mode you lost literally everything (character was permadead) Plenty of examples; dying = you suck, death = punishment for sucking ~Fin~ | |} ---- If it's soooooooooooooo pointless... don't post and thus the OP might just get some nice info rather than... xxxxxxxxx but this game had xxxxxxxxx... go back to your cave and bang your sticks on a possum skin drum. | |} ---- Woah there sparky. The thread is pointless. The OP makes some pretty silly and base errors in employing their critical faculties. I don't honestly know who in their right mind would think of 'death' and 'no detrimental side effects' in the same sentence as two parts of a causal series... In that respect it is extremely pointless, it's utter non-sense to think death would NOT come with negative consequences (as the OP calls them, 'punishment'). I get you are trying to play hero, but as a very brilliant stupid man was once portrayed to say: 'Stupid is as stupid does' | |} ---- ---- Because it insults you when you die. Distance and repair bills don't bug me much, but insults when a shittily programmed Esper pet skill gets me killed? | |} ---- I was 14 years old when you were born. | |} ---- ---- ---- 1.) As others have mentioned, dying is supposed to be bad. Despite what the announcer would have you believe, the drawbacks of death extend beyond your wounded pride. The cost of rezzing on the spot, or the time spent running back are a penalty. 2.) The timer is there so that people with lots of game-money aren't rendered immune to the death penalties for all intents and purposes. Games that have a timer that increases as you die more often are generally games where dying every few minutes is normal. There are few examples of this outside of PvP match type games. That having been said, if you are dying so often that this is a real issue I highly recommend visiting the class forum for your character's class and seeking advice. Or even ask for it here in general. Find out what you're doing wrong. Maybe you're just biting off more than you can chew. Maybe you have trouble with your class. Maybe you just don't like waiting for your shields between fights. Figure out what's causing the lion's share of your deaths and see if it's something you have some control over. Or play a stalker. 'Cause we're awesome like that. | |} ---- ---- to be really super fair, most of the old games were either coin-op or based off of coin-op games. The Devs wanted you to die so that vendors would install their games based off of profitability. Might add however that if we are in a Group PvE instance, and the game detects that 2 or more players havent completed the instance prior, that repair bills not quick stack up quite so fast =) ...*mutter mutter* | |} ---- RIP World of Darkness, you were so hardcore you didnt even make it out of Alpha :( | |} ---- Wow. Way to get your hyperbole on there, sparky. We went from a noobie getting a hard smackdown from the overwhelming population of responders to national demographics and some genuine confusion about how the phrase "picking up the slack" applies to the difference between wealth ("people who have money") and productivity ("people who do work"). But since you brought up the topics of hard work and entitlement, a perspective check seems appropriate. This is a video game. Talking about "hard work" as something that is relevant to a video game is not the best way to demonstrate that you understand what the phrase "entitlement" really means. | |} ---- ---- ---- Back in my day I had to eject the floppy and put in disk 1 to start over. (lol) | |} ---- Hell...back in my day I had to program my own damn game in basic! | |} ---- Well, back in MY day, I had to blindly rewind or fast forward my cassette tape to find my data. (TI-994A) | |} ---- lol yup. I remember trying to create a "Track & Field" clone using stick figures on a Tandy CoCo. :D (I did not succeed) | |} ---- ---- Which, let's be honest, is hilarious... every now and then I'll intentionally get killed a few times just to hear him.... | |} ---- They knew not many would play it. Not enough people are into the Hardcore thing. Wise move to scrap it. It was dead in the water. | |} ---- This makes dying fun imo. | |} ---- ---- Well, we had it tough. Back in my day we had to use slide rules to analyze our data. And if we didn't analyze it all before it got dark, we had to do it by feel, counting the tick marks as they lined up. And did we complain? No. We were happy to do it. We enjoyed it. | |} ---- ---- ---- I hate them for it, also isn't there other game considered hardcore, might as well be known for making hardcore games. | |} ---- A slide rule? Pffft, those werent even invented yet. In MY day we used an abacus ;) | |} ---- Oooh, aren't you fancy, with your 'place values'. When you run out of fingers and toes you're out of numbers, and that's how REAL hardcore players like it. | |} ---- I honestly dont believe you know what "hardcore" really is. Have you ever served in the military, been a cop or firefighter?. Ever save someone from dying our put your life on the line for someone else? Then you arent as "hardcore" as you pretend to be. | |} ---- :rolleyes: I'm just gonna let you read back into that string of facetious mathematics references my comment followed. And notice where I actually put "player" after it, making any references outside the game entirely beside the point. Then look away while you quietly extract yourself before it gets worse. :rolleyes: | |} ---- Oh, pardon me, I should have "known" that by adding "player" into it you purposely meant to change the meaning. Yeah, my mind reading skills suck on a Monday. Quietly extract myself because I laugh at ANYONE who uses "hardcore" and gaming in the same sentence? My you are full of yourself today. It can't possibly get "any worse". | |} ---- Honestly? Yeah, you should probably read the entirety of a person's messages and treat those words as the words they intended to use to create their entire point, rather than cherry-picking it for something to yell about. That when in a conversation about a video game that uses "hardcore" in a lot of its copy, someone says "hardcore player", they mean "of the pseudo-class of gamers frequently discussed to death on this forum". Like, I imagine you're facetiously implying you needed psychic powers to determine that the text I used meant what it said, and you didn't accidentally add "mind" to an otherwise accurate sentence. So I'll take it for snark. I mean, dude, grind your axe as much as you need - though why you got involved with the community for a video game that uses "HARDCORE!!!!" about ten thousand times in its raid trailer feeling so dismissive of it is TOTALLY BEYOND ME - but you really might want to make sure they're saying anything of the kind before you do. | |} ---- ---- ---- . . . | |} ---- Aaaaaaanyway... No love for UO's lootable death - and gangs of lowbies with spears jumping Dread Lords in the woods and just gang-poking them? | |} ---- ----